There we go

[San Goku]

Word on the street is the Taliban disagrees with Russian actions?

[killacross]

....The US wont get directly involved because China is already indirectly involved.

[xandorxerxes]

This is long as hell, but it's not really arguing with you. It's more adding on.

Who said anything about him having the right to? That's never stopped anyone. It certainly never stops the US government from dropping their asses all over the world. The reason the NATO border matters though is because if I recall there was an agreement to keep the NATO border where it was back when USSR fell and to not expand it that far. But of course, they lied, big shock, I know.

I'm also not defending Putin, I'm just pointing out that machinations made years before this set him up to make these kinds of moves. He wants to secure a "Russian Empire", especially in the face of having an economy with a GDP equivalent to that of Florida, meaning Russia isn't really that much of an economy on the main stage. Think of it like this, if Latin America (minus Mexico) were hostile to the United States in the way that the relationship between NATO and Russia is and these Latin American alliances started creeping their way into Mexico the US would crush that shit before they ever even approached the border. So you expect Russia to just be like, "Oh, this is fine." Putin is WRONG but let's not act like the States wouldn't start also acting in their own interest if the same thing happened to them.

Sure - but I'm mostly certain we wouldn't invade and annex Mexico. I'm assuming the US gave the media-machine the intelligence on the invasion to give Putin an out. If Putin doesn't invade after we say he does, he gets to mock us globally but no invasion. Instead he invades anyways under false pretenses. We can even look at history - Bay of Pigs. Even during the Cold War we didn't launch a war on Cuba - we did what we're doing today, arming and training a bunch of people to fight (and of course lose spectacularly in that case).

Granted, I'm extremely biased against Russia since I work in an industry that is very antagonistic with them. And yeah, we did promise not to move eastward. Then the soviet states decided our culture was much more to their liking

The West also cut off its nose to spite its face, particularly in Europe as their failure in energy policies has caused them to be heavily dependent on Russian oil, and even the States shares in this dilemma though not to the same extent. Biden cuts off the Keystone XL pipeline which would've had us getting much cheaper oil from Canada AND this doesn't even mention the oil access we have but don't use because we're afraid of Greenpeace and a slightly autistic Nordic girl. (oversimplification).

Now how is this fixed? Well, I don't think it will be, and I think Russia will take Ukraine unfortunately, whether he continues after that is unknown but he may be happy just taking a big ass chunk of the country if not the whole thing. I know the media and the politicians on both sides are trying to gin up Americans to fight for Ukraine but I honestly think most Americans don't want any part of it. Obviously, no direct conflict is going to happen as the risks are too great for that, but even a proxy war where they essentially fund Ukraine in fighting back is something people don't want and I don't blame them. Americans are tired which is why people like Ben Shapiro's trash foreign policy views are something I can never get behind.

I don't fucking know, all I know is that this shit sucks for Ukraine but I can't be all like, "Yeah America...get involved because that always makes things better."

Keystone wouldn't materially impact prices overall. Tar sands oil is especially awful for the environment as well, though the DOJ under Biden has previously tacitly approved Line 3 so who knows what his actual policy is. Both pipelines cross Native American land too, because why not. Keep in mind also the pipeline isn't only moving "new" oil - much of the oil being refined in the Midwest would instead flow through Keystone. Gas prices in the Midwest would actually rise.

Climate change is already wrecking us, but China is such a bigger polluter than we are I don't know that it would have mattered that much in the end. That's definitely not a good argument, as we're still more than all of Europe combined last I looked, but it is what it is. Greener energy has come way down in price and way up in efficiency. We're obviously not going to replace oil in the immediate future, but I don't think it was the wrong play to choose greener energy over more oil. We were world leaders in solar for a while too, until we backed off under Trump and let China eat our lunch.

As for defending Ukraine ourselves - I don't think us going in is the right play either. I think Biden's got this one right for now; reinforce our allies as a show of faith (especially following Syria and Afghanistan) and hit Russia economically. It also proves to our NATO allies that paying to be a part of NATO is valuable - if we jumped in for Ukraine, they might wonder what they're paying for if we'd jump in anyways. Hitting Russia (or China) economically won't be so easy to do in the future if Russia and China are able to move the world away from the Dollar, though.

Edit: That's before I see this thing on sending 600M in military aid. Haven't read about that yet.

[San Goku]

Trudeau is loaning Ukraine over $120M, that's nice and all but how is he expecting them to pay it back if Russia wipes the floor with them and off the map? The public like myself normally wouldn't have cared as much but he decided to punish his people with restrictions for 2years and now prices are so inflated.

[Digital Masta]

Trudeau is loaning Ukraine over $120M, that's nice and all but how is he expecting them to pay it back if Russia wipes the floor with them and off the map? The public like myself normally wouldn't have cared as much but he decided to punish his people with restrictions for 2years and now prices are so inflated.

Here's $120 million right as we're freezing Canadian bank accounts because they donated to truckers. This fuckin' guy.

This is long as hell, but it's not really arguing with you. It's more adding on.


Edit: That's before I see this thing on sending 600M in military aid. Haven't read about that yet.

I tell you this much...when the US wants you to give up your nukes the answer should always be NO! If Ukraine still had them nukes, maybe Russia would hesitate a bit.

[killacross]

Russia has the most nukes on the planet. The only people they would hesitate against would be China or N Korea. Those are the only 2 places that would not give 2 fucks about launching them because all of their leadership would be pressing the red button from 200m below ground level in lead lined bunkers...while letting the riff raff common folk evaporate then freeze/starve to death during nuclear winter.

[xandorxerxes]

Here's $120 million right as we're freezing Canadian bank accounts because they donated to truckers. This fuckin' guy.


I tell you this much...when the US wants you to give up your nukes the answer should always be NO! If Ukraine still had them nukes, maybe Russia would hesitate a bit.

I mean, the truckers may have broken 1B in damages, so...

And yeah. I wouldn't go with "No" because I like to pretend there's a chance of people getting along, but definitely "you first."

Russia has the most nukes on the planet. The only people they would hesitate against would be China or N Korea. Those are the only 2 places that would not give 2 fucks about launching them because all of their leadership would be pressing the red button from 200m below ground level in lead lined bunkers...while letting the riff raff common folk evaporate then freeze/starve to death during nuclear winter.

The US is 100% on the "burn the world to the ground" list.

[San Goku]

I remember when I was in Japan and we were in Hiroshima my cousin told anytime during the anniversary Japanese did not want to see any Americans around, especially the older generation.

[killacross]

The US is 100% on the "burn the world to the ground" list.

Not burn the world
.. It's set their own house on fire

[xandorxerxes]

The US is 100% on the "burn the world to the ground" list.

Not burn the world
.. It's set their own house on fire

Oh, they'd nuke themselves to stop an attack (unless I'm wrong again). Got it, my bad for missreading.

[San Goku]

I think Russia will overtake Ukraine then be in an eternal stalemate with NATO. Maybe for the best to calm Putin down. He's obviously in the position where he can't afford to lose now. Hope it's over quick either way, preferably peacefully.

[Cane_The9lives]

I think Russia will overtake Ukraine then be in an eternal stalemate with NATO. Maybe for the best to calm Putin down. He's obviously in the position where he can't afford to lose now. Hope it's over quick either way, preferably peacefully.

I don't think this is going to end anytime soon.

I'm also banking on more strategic plays to escalate the resistance if putin doesn't bankrupt himself first. Think what you will about Biden, but he was right about one thing, putin has now become a world pariah. For fucks sake, Germany just reversed a decades old policy of not providing lethal aid to war zones, this is huge historic shift. I can easily envision a proxy war being waged similar to the one we saw in Afghanistan but without the unfortunate byproduct of arming enemies in waiting. No Mujahideen, no proto haqqani network or future radical islamists, this would be a country devoid of the terrorist element fighting for its right to exist.

Putin is backing himself into a corner militarily and economically, and he knows it.
He was expecting Ukraine to roll over and NATO to offer nothing more than feckless condemnation like they did during Crimea. This is what the response should have been back in 2014, god knows how things might have been different, but here we are.

[San Goku]

Say what you will about Trump but he did say NATO countries need to pay their fair share and increase their defense spending.

[killacross]

Shit.. I'm honestly glad Trump isn't involved. He would be alllll over Twitter right now saying dumb shitand escalating this exponentially faster...

I just wish we had just about anyone other than Biden in that seat though

[xandorxerxes]

I think Russia will overtake Ukraine then be in an eternal stalemate with NATO. Maybe for the best to calm Putin down. He's obviously in the position where he can't afford to lose now. Hope it's over quick either way, preferably peacefully.

I don't think this is going to end anytime soon.

I'm also banking on more strategic plays to escalate the resistance if putin doesn't bankrupt himself first. Think what you will about Biden, but he was right about one thing, putin has now become a world pariah. For fucks sake, Germany just reversed a decades old policy of not providing lethal aid to war zones, this is huge historic shift. I can easily envision a proxy war being waged similar to the one we saw in Afghanistan but without the unfortunate byproduct of arming enemies in waiting. No Mujahideen, no proto haqqani network or future radical islamists, this would be a country devoid of the terrorist element fighting for its right to exist.

Putin is backing himself into a corner militarily and economically, and he knows it.
He was expecting Ukraine to roll over and NATO to offer nothing more than feckless condemnation like they did during Crimea. This is what the response should have been back in 2014, god knows how things might have been different, but here we are.

Not only that, Germany is expanding their military again.

Obama's biggest weakness was his foreign policy - our response during Crimea was pathetic.

Shit.. I'm honestly glad Trump isn't involved. He would be alllll over Twitter right now saying dumb shitand escalating this exponentially faster...

I just wish we had just about anyone other than Biden in that seat though

And probably just done nothing about the invasion, since he's praising Putin for it.

Why other than Biden? This is probably the one area I'd have strong confidence in Biden.

[killacross]

Why other than Biden? This is probably the one area I'd have strong confidence in Biden.

I understand that this is bigger than 1 man. But his administration has essentially gone from 1 crisis to the next.

Past 3 months: Please China...pretty please!
Monday: These are the strongest sanctions the world has ever seen...they must know we are serious.
Tuesday: *they invade*
Wednesday: We knew all along the sanctions were meaningless -- we were just making a statement
Thursday: These sanctions are gonna hurt your pockets -- but it's the right thing to do
Friday: Putin is worth billions...the sanctions won't hurt him at all
Saturday: Putin "Get the nukes ready"
Sunday: ... well -- shit!

That about sums up the past few weeks.

[San Goku]

@XX

^^ but One of Trump's fault from the left was he was too friendly with Russia was Putin. Maybe it doesn't even get to this point with Trump in power? Not maybe, cause Trump was focused on energy dependence for America. Now the West is doing nonsense like throwing out already bought Russian vodka.

[Digital Masta]

And probably just done nothing about the invasion, since he's praising Putin for it.

Why other than Biden? This is probably the one area I'd have strong confidence in Biden.

Bruh, your TDR is flaring up again because you know that's not the full context of what he said. Of course, it's impossible to find the full quote now but I believe it was along the lines of saying that it was a genius move but that it was sad and would have never happened on his watch. I might be mixing quotes though.

Either way, the media of course has run with what he said but you can acknowledge that a person is evil and smart, evil and good at playing the game. That doesn't mean you side with them or praise them as being reported.

Hitler was evil, that doesn't take away from the fact the man was incredibly intelligent and made a couple of genius moves to take power. He's still one of the world's most evil humans.

Biden doesn't project strength, there's a reason Putin waited until now. That might've been because people just couldn't get a read on what Trump would do because he was so all over the place or not. But if you're Putin, it seems like now is as good a time as any.

@XX

^^ but One of Trump's fault from the left was he was too friendly with Russia was Putin. Maybe it doesn't even get to this point with Trump in power? Not maybe, cause Trump was focused on energy dependence for America. Now the West is doing nonsense like throwing out already bought Russian vodka.

Except he wasn't necessarily friendly with Russia. I mean he wasn't constantly saber-rattling them publicly which if you're not doing you're seen as "being friendly" but a recent New York Post article indicates that he may have made some pretty crazy-ass threats to both Putin and Xi when he was President. Could all be untrue though.

https://nypost.com/2022/02/22/trump-tal ... ar-a-lago/

[Digital Masta]

Here's $120 million right as we're freezing Canadian bank accounts because they donated to truckers. This fuckin' guy.


I tell you this much...when the US wants you to give up your nukes the answer should always be NO! If Ukraine still had them nukes, maybe Russia would hesitate a bit.

I mean, the truckers may have broken 1B in damages, so...

And yeah. I wouldn't go with "No" because I like to pretend there's a chance of people getting along, but definitely "you first."

In the form of what? Lost time/product due to them blocking off roads (which I didn't agree with as you're now preventing others from getting where they want to go) or in actual damage to property that they went out and destroyed? Because during the 2020 Summer of Love, cities burned, people were physically assaulted and killed but nobody in Canada had their bank accounts frozen for donating to BLM or any other organization involved in supporting these protests. As a matter of fact, Trudeau was out there too.

[killacross]

1. In the form of what? Lost time/product due to them blocking off roads (which I didn't agree with as you're now preventing others from getting where they want to go) or in actual damage to property that they went out and destroyed? Because during the 2020 Summer of Love, cities burned, people were physically assaulted and killed but nobody in Canada had their bank accounts frozen for donating to BLM or any other organization involved in supporting these protests. 2. As a matter of fact, Trudeau was out there too.

1. In the form of lost sleep and noise pollution. Those horns were really loud
2. to be fair -- Trudeau IS black...I've seen the pictures