There we go

[San Goku]

I'm just gonna say it... Officers shouldn't be allowed to carry tasers

Too many stories of "I thought I pulled my taser...so I shot him 15x in the face... Before reloading... Twice"

Reminds me the time an officer had some dude pinned down face to the ground handcuffed and shot one in his back and killed him.

[Digital Masta]

I'm just gonna say it... Officers shouldn't be allowed to carry tasers

Too many stories of "I thought I pulled my taser...so I shot him 15x in the face... Before reloading... Twice"

And apparently, she pulled him over because having an air freshener hanging from your rear-view mirror is illegal in Minnesota.



This is where officer discretion needs to be more of a thing. There's the letter of the law and then the spirit of the law and as a cop, you have a choice. I would've just been like, "Yeah, I don't care. That's not worth my time and it's a stupid law to enforce."

So thank you Minnesota government for having such a dumbass law that lead to finding out about the outstanding warrant which led to this situation.

There are so many shitty cops and I don't mean racist or evil...just god damn incompetent and that leads to shit like this.

Now...should he have tried to have gotten away? No. That's rule #0. But as a cop, especially in Minnesota at this time why the hell would you want to stop someone over an air freshener?


Mandatory: Here come the race hustlers

EDIT: https://nypost.com/2021/04/10/marxist-b ... a-enclave/

Damn yo...that activist lifestyle clearly pays and surrounded by a bunch of white people too

[Cane_The9lives]

I'm just gonna say it... Officers shouldn't be allowed to carry tasers

Too many stories of "I thought I pulled my taser...so I shot him 15x in the face... Before reloading... Twice"

And apparently, she pulled him over because having an air freshener hanging from your rear-view mirror is illegal in Minnesota.



This is where officer discretion needs to be more of a thing. There's the letter of the law and then the spirit of the law and as a cop, you have a choice. I would've just been like, "Yeah, I don't care. That's not worth my time and it's a stupid law to enforce."

So thank you Minnesota government for having such a dumbass law that lead to finding out about the outstanding warrant which led to this situation.

There are so many shitty cops and I don't mean racist or evil...just god damn incompetent and that leads to shit like this.

Now...should he have tried to have gotten away? No. That's rule #0. But as a cop, especially in Minnesota at this time why the hell would you want to stop someone over an air freshener?


Mandatory: Here come the race hustlers

EDIT: https://nypost.com/2021/04/10/marxist-b ... a-enclave/

Damn yo...that activist lifestyle clearly pays and surrounded by a bunch of white people too

From the press conference I watched, the official line was he was pulled over for expired tags and when they ran his name that's when they got the database ping for the warrant. The air freshener (again emphasizing what the police are contending) was incidental.

Honestly, the air freshener law is stupid and if that was what they initially zeroed in on him for and then they just started running his plates for the hell of it.......that's dirty pool but not that egregious to me.
If it was the plates, that's a typical stop and of course they are going to process his information as standard procedure.

What I don't buy is the "I didn't know it was a gun" defense.
She yelled "I'm gonna tase you" before pulling it, "Taser Taser Taser!!!" several times while holding it, and took several seconds before discharging that odd "Bullet firing taser". Pulling it and shooting within a split second is one thing, I could believe a mistake made in that manner of haste....taking your time like that? Nah.

She's either incompetent or lying.

[Digital Masta]

I'm just gonna say it... Officers shouldn't be allowed to carry tasers

Too many stories of "I thought I pulled my taser...so I shot him 15x in the face... Before reloading... Twice"

And apparently, she pulled him over because having an air freshener hanging from your rear-view mirror is illegal in Minnesota.



This is where officer discretion needs to be more of a thing. There's the letter of the law and then the spirit of the law and as a cop, you have a choice. I would've just been like, "Yeah, I don't care. That's not worth my time and it's a stupid law to enforce."

So thank you Minnesota government for having such a dumbass law that lead to finding out about the outstanding warrant which led to this situation.

There are so many shitty cops and I don't mean racist or evil...just god damn incompetent and that leads to shit like this.

Now...should he have tried to have gotten away? No. That's rule #0. But as a cop, especially in Minnesota at this time why the hell would you want to stop someone over an air freshener?


Mandatory: Here come the race hustlers

EDIT: https://nypost.com/2021/04/10/marxist-b ... a-enclave/

Damn yo...that activist lifestyle clearly pays and surrounded by a bunch of white people too

From the press conference I watched, the official line was he was pulled over for expired tags and when they ran his name that's when they got the database ping for the warrant. The air freshener (again emphasizing what the police are contending) was incidental.

Honestly, the air freshener law is stupid and if that was what they initially zeroed in on him for and then they just started running his plates for the hell of it.......that's dirty pool but not that egregious to me.
If it was the plates, that's a typical stop and of course they are going to process his information as standard procedure.

What I don't buy is the "I didn't know it was a gun" defense.
She yelled "I'm gonna tase you" before pulling it, "Taser Taser Taser!!!" several times while holding it, and took several seconds before discharging that odd "Bullet firing taser". Pulling it and shooting within a split second is one thing, I could believe a mistake made in that manner of haste....taking your time like that? Nah.

She's either incompetent or lying.

I just watched the bodycam footage and yeah it looks like two things:

1)Nigga, don't try to get away from the cops when they are arresting you.

2)Where the hell did this woman get trained? Like how did you not notice when you pulled it out and were pointing it that it was your gun and not your taser? There were a couple of beats in there where she should've noticed. The other cops were busy with the guy so you can't necessarily expect them to notice.

Also, what's the policy on taser placement? I get it is most likely to be on your dominant hand side for easy drawing but is there any place it can be put that would help not confuse it with a gun?

[xandorxerxes]

The length she held the gun will probably be at the center of any investigation, because that's the only indication it might not be accidental that I saw. Adrenaline probably played a huge factor too. Looks like average taser/gun mix-up is just under once/year.

Accident:
- Follows taser procedures
- Only shoots once
- Attitude afterwards

Intentional:
- Held the gun for a period of time before shooting

If their taser grips are at all similar to their gun grips, that could also be a factor. You'd think they'd take that into account when purchasing tasers though.

Edit: Apparently the air freshener thing is because of a law that prohibits any items hanging from the review mirror in order to prevent vision obstruction. Wonder if someone got off on that defense somehow.

[San Goku]

And apparently, she pulled him over because having an air freshener hanging from your rear-view mirror is illegal in Minnesota.



This is where officer discretion needs to be more of a thing. There's the letter of the law and then the spirit of the law and as a cop, you have a choice. I would've just been like, "Yeah, I don't care. That's not worth my time and it's a stupid law to enforce."

So thank you Minnesota government for having such a dumbass law that lead to finding out about the outstanding warrant which led to this situation.

There are so many shitty cops and I don't mean racist or evil...just god damn incompetent and that leads to shit like this.

Now...should he have tried to have gotten away? No. That's rule #0. But as a cop, especially in Minnesota at this time why the hell would you want to stop someone over an air freshener?


Mandatory: Here come the race hustlers

EDIT: https://nypost.com/2021/04/10/marxist-b ... a-enclave/

Damn yo...that activist lifestyle clearly pays and surrounded by a bunch of white people too

From the press conference I watched, the official line was he was pulled over for expired tags and when they ran his name that's when they got the database ping for the warrant. The air freshener (again emphasizing what the police are contending) was incidental.

Honestly, the air freshener law is stupid and if that was what they initially zeroed in on him for and then they just started running his plates for the hell of it.......that's dirty pool but not that egregious to me.
If it was the plates, that's a typical stop and of course they are going to process his information as standard procedure.

What I don't buy is the "I didn't know it was a gun" defense.
She yelled "I'm gonna tase you" before pulling it, "Taser Taser Taser!!!" several times while holding it, and took several seconds before discharging that odd "Bullet firing taser". Pulling it and shooting within a split second is one thing, I could believe a mistake made in that manner of haste....taking your time like that? Nah.

She's either incompetent or lying.

I just watched the bodycam footage and yeah it looks like two things:

1)Nigga, don't try to get away from the cops when they are arresting you.

2)Where the hell did this woman get trained? Like how did you not notice when you pulled it out and were pointing it that it was your gun and not your taser? There were a couple of beats in there where she should've noticed. The other cops were busy with the guy so you can't necessarily expect them to notice.

Also, what's the policy on taser placement? I get it is most likely to be on your dominant hand side for easy drawing but is there any place it can be put that would help not confuse it with a gun?

Hmm maybe make the teaser a bright colour like red or yellow so you can't confuse it with the black gun. I'm from maintenance and engineering and we have to dummy proof a lot of things over the years with our asset management.

[killacross]

Poka-yoke
...but I'd rather just eliminate the taser entirely. These people are in high stress situations and have to make split second decisions. I am a fan of
#1: Cops don't have to be shot at first to shoot
#2: Cops don't have to [stupidly] put their life on the line
#3: Cops should be 100% accountable for their actions and the consequences.as a result

[Digital Masta]

Well, it's definitely at least involuntary manslaughter.

[superbob]

From the press conference I watched, the official line was he was pulled over for expired tags and when they ran his name that's when they got the database ping for the warrant. The air freshener (again emphasizing what the police are contending) was incidental.

Honestly, the air freshener law is stupid and if that was what they initially zeroed in on him for and then they just started running his plates for the hell of it.......that's dirty pool but not that egregious to me.
If it was the plates, that's a typical stop and of course they are going to process his information as standard procedure.

What I don't buy is the "I didn't know it was a gun" defense.
She yelled "I'm gonna tase you" before pulling it, "Taser Taser Taser!!!" several times while holding it, and took several seconds before discharging that odd "Bullet firing taser". Pulling it and shooting within a split second is one thing, I could believe a mistake made in that manner of haste....taking your time like that? Nah.

She's either incompetent or lying.

I just watched the bodycam footage and yeah it looks like two things:

1)Nigga, don't try to get away from the cops when they are arresting you.

2)Where the hell did this woman get trained? Like how did you not notice when you pulled it out and were pointing it that it was your gun and not your taser? There were a couple of beats in there where she should've noticed. The other cops were busy with the guy so you can't necessarily expect them to notice.

Also, what's the policy on taser placement? I get it is most likely to be on your dominant hand side for easy drawing but is there any place it can be put that would help not confuse it with a gun?

Hmm maybe make the teaser a bright colour like red or yellow so you can't confuse it with the black gun. I'm from maintenance and engineering and we have to dummy proof a lot of things over the years with our asset management.

the taser is bright yellow, all plastic, and about 1 lb lighter than her duty issue glock. They're also supposed to be in completely different locations on the body so you don't grab the wrong one

[San Goku]

I just watched the bodycam footage and yeah it looks like two things:

1)Nigga, don't try to get away from the cops when they are arresting you.

2)Where the hell did this woman get trained? Like how did you not notice when you pulled it out and were pointing it that it was your gun and not your taser? There were a couple of beats in there where she should've noticed. The other cops were busy with the guy so you can't necessarily expect them to notice.

Also, what's the policy on taser placement? I get it is most likely to be on your dominant hand side for easy drawing but is there any place it can be put that would help not confuse it with a gun?

Hmm maybe make the teaser a bright colour like red or yellow so you can't confuse it with the black gun. I'm from maintenance and engineering and we have to dummy proof a lot of things over the years with our asset management.

the taser is bright yellow, all plastic, and about 1 lb lighter than her duty issue glock. They're also supposed to be in completely different locations on the body so you don't grab the wrong one

Well there you go she's is either a fucking idiot or a liar, I'm guessing the idiot. I heard she resigned, good for her.

[killacross]

you all make it sound like she wasnt in a high stress situation....that he made even higher stress by resisting

hell...people drive for 20/30/40+ years..and then accidentally hit the gas instead of the brake. Eliminate the taser so that they UNDERSTAND that every time they pull that weapon -- you INTEND to take a life. The thought of the taser has made them lose sight of the power and responsibility they have

[San Goku]

I acknowledge she is in a high stress situation and that training does not equal =/ real life situation. Heck I could have probably made the same mistake but she made the mistake and not me and has to face some consequences. It's all about accountability in this situation.

[xandorxerxes]

Well, it's definitely at least involuntary manslaughter.

It'll be interesting to see what charges they go for. Under the premise that "fuck-ups happen on the job" police may get more leeway on things like involuntary manslaughter or reckless homicide since their fuck-ups are a lot more serious. Assuming there isn't a pattern in her behavior that I've read about yet, I think she's got a strong argument for leeway if any is legally given. That all may affect sentencing more than charges brought though.

I imagine she'll also take a plea deal given that she's arguing she messed up instead of she's doing anything wrong. Whether or not the prosecution offers one though...

[killacross]

2nd Degree Manslaughter
...max penalty - 10 years & $20k fine

[xandorxerxes]

And no minimum it looks like. Also, I'm not sure the charge fully fits:

609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:

(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another; or

The other ones I didn't list aren't relevant unless you want to make dark humor. What unreasonable risk is she creating, and consciously taking changes of death/harm? She consciously (supposedly) thought it was a taser. Is the unreasonable risk where she had her taser versus her gun? Is it different from any of the other officers?

Guess I'm interested to see their logic on this one. Obligatory "I am not a lawyer."

[San Goku]

@Xander yes the charge fits obviously from what you posted in (1)

[Digital Masta]

@Xander yes the charge fits obviously from what you posted in (1)

It could probably be argued that the "creates an unreasonable risk" aspect wouldn't fit because he resisted arrest prompting her to think she needed to tase him. She didn't create the "unreasonable risk" she was responding to it (and completely fucked that shit up which is where unreasonable risk my come into play...who knows), hence why I think involuntary manslaughter.


I'd be curious as to what sentencing she'd get regardless. She has 26 years on the force and so if she has a virtually untarnished record for that time I doubt she'd do any serious time.

[xandorxerxes]

@Xander yes the charge fits obviously from what you posted in (1)

It could probably be argued that the "creates an unreasonable risk" aspect wouldn't fit because he resisted arrest prompting her to think she needed to tase him. She didn't create the "unreasonable risk" she was responding to it (and completely fucked that shit up which is where unreasonable risk my come into play...who knows), hence why I think involuntary manslaughter.


I'd be curious as to what sentencing she'd get regardless. She has 26 years on the force and so if she has a virtually untarnished record for that time I doubt she'd do any serious time.

Exactly. She was going to tase him (allegedly) - does tasing someone create an unreasonable risk? What if he's fighting against the police? If the tasing action is justified - and I think that can easily be argued - the only "unreasonable risk" would be if she put her gun somewhere stupid compared to her taser and/or didn't follow protocol.

I wonder if involuntary manslaughter is a lessor included charge. Prosecution says they're going for 2nd degree manslaughter, essentially presents a case for involuntary, jury convicts on involuntary instead of 2nd degree. Lip service paid, guilty verdict found, et al.

EDIT/Correction: According to FindLaw, 2nd degree manslaughter IS involuntary manslaughter in Minnesota and there isn't a negligent homicide. This will end poorly for someone.

[killacross]

Seriously, play stupid games....

On a [somewhat] related note
..Im traveling to Italy for work in 2 weeks. Only staying for 1 week this time (different law in Italy vs Germany).

[San Goku]

OMFG Look up stripper incident at job site in Milton, Ontario Canada. Wow