There we go

San Goku
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Re: There we go

Post by San Goku » Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:14 am

XX are Trump's concerns legitimate ?

Holy Cowboy
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:04 am

Re: There we go

Post by Holy Cowboy » Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:11 am

Can depend upon if you take the threads on thedonald.win seriously.

xandorxerxes
Posts: 368
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:43 pm

Re: There we go

Post by xandorxerxes » Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:28 pm

San Goku wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:14 am
XX are Trump's concerns legitimate ?
About voter fraud? Nah. There will be a recount in these super close states anyways, and historically recounts haven't changed much since the process is pretty strong. I can't even imagine the level of effort it would take to fake all of these votes and do it in a way no one notices, it can't be detected, and no one leaks about it. I'm sure there are some bad ballots out there, only not anywhere near the order of magnitude it would take to be impactful. He's been setting this up since he got in office.

Holy Cowboy
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:04 am

Re: There we go

Post by Holy Cowboy » Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:40 pm

xandorxerxes wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:28 pm
San Goku wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:14 am
XX are Trump's concerns legitimate ?
About voter fraud? Nah. There will be a recount in these super close states anyways, and historically recounts haven't changed much since the process is pretty strong. I can't even imagine the level of effort it would take to fake all of these votes and do it in a way no one notices, it can't be detected, and no one leaks about it. I'm sure there are some bad ballots out there, only not anywhere near the order of magnitude it would take to be impactful. He's been setting this up since he got in office.
Under normal circumstances, this would be more believable. However, if you had 2-4 years to prepare for 'showtime' with testing grounds and refining methods time before said 2-4 years??

xandorxerxes
Posts: 368
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Re: There we go

Post by xandorxerxes » Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:38 pm

Holy Cowboy wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:40 pm
Under normal circumstances, this would be more believable. However, if you had 2-4 years to prepare for 'showtime' with testing grounds and refining methods time before said 2-4 years??
Thinking out loud (this got too long, sorry):

To compromise mail-in voting you'd have to have a physical address to deliver the ballots to, an identity to assume, and match a signature. You can't use existing people, as there's a good chance you hit someone who's an actual voter and you'd have to pilfer their mail. You're also likely unable to match their signature. So you'd have to forge millions of identities, identify addresses to receive their ballots (keeping in mind that delivering 100,000 mail in ballots to one location is suspicious), and sufficiently but imperfectly match the signatures each time. Also for some states you have to use their special, marked paper that mail-in ballots use.

You'd also have to do this without alerting the USPS, skewing metrics that would identify your ballots as fraudulent (i.e. a county can't suddenly have a population boost), and keeping a lid on everyone who knows anything about the operation - even if they're unaware of what's actually going on. If the USPS was in on it from the start you can get around the part about delivery, but USPS is operated by a Trump political appointee. If you want to get around him you're talking about going directly to lower level individuals, who then have to get around their bosses as well. So that means if you're testing for a few years... you also have to get it right on every try because if you mess up once you're done. Finally, you'd have to know how many votes you need as well as proportional mail-in rates in other states.

Keep in mind that it looks like these are slowly coming in after magically appearing to be counted... but these votes that are being reported now were ones that were all delivered on or before election day. There were several states that started way blue because they counted mail-ins first, only to swing red at the end when the in-person voting was tabulated. If PA allowed for mail-in ballots to be processed before election day, we'd have known November 3rd what PA's result was. You also see that states that normally had heavy Republican mail-in voting, like Arizona, don't really have the issue of Biden getting overwhelming mail-in results. Biden repeatedly said stay home and vote by mail, Trump repeatedly said vote in person. Unless the mail-ins are counted first - which they aren't in any of the currently contested states - the results will always look like they're in Trump's favor while the mail-ins are being processed.

This was written several days before the election talking about why you'll see the swings:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wh ... ion-night/

I just can't imagine someone being able to pull this off AND keep it silent, all without leaving a single trace of evidence.

killacross
Posts: 339
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Re: There we go

Post by killacross » Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:36 am

Voting fraud is a real thing. It's why people get prosecuted for it. Large scale voting fraud is not a real thing. It's the US -- not Egypt.

Personally...I wish the government petitioned VISA or MC to create a voting system. I've never once signed into my acct and money that isn't mine was there accidentally.

And the entire network is updated just about instantly. Doesn't seem hard. Register for a card and a pin. The system verifies you. You get it mailed to you. Then you need the card/pin to vote. Eliminates a lot of fraud...though I guess it disenfranchises the homeless (they can't receive something in the mail).

xandorxerxes
Posts: 368
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Re: There we go

Post by xandorxerxes » Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:47 am

killacross wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:36 am
Voting fraud is a real thing. It's why people get prosecuted for it. Large scale voting fraud is not a real thing. It's the US -- not Egypt.

Personally...I wish the government petitioned VISA or MC to create a voting system. I've never once signed into my acct and money that isn't mine was there accidentally.

And the entire network is updated just about instantly. Doesn't seem hard. Register for a card and a pin. The system verifies you. You get it mailed to you. Then you need the card/pin to vote. Eliminates a lot of fraud...though I guess it disenfranchises the homeless (they can't receive something in the mail).
There are a few other problems that crop up too; while you never see extra money many people are often missing money.

This is more relevant to online banking/voting, but it's a comparison of the two in general as well:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/202 ... e-banking/

Edit: forgot to mention - total agreement on your first paragraph.

San Goku
Posts: 510
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:41 am

Re: There we go

Post by San Goku » Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:13 am

xandorxerxes wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:38 pm
Holy Cowboy wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:40 pm
Under normal circumstances, this would be more believable. However, if you had 2-4 years to prepare for 'showtime' with testing grounds and refining methods time before said 2-4 years??
Thinking out loud (this got too long, sorry):

To compromise mail-in voting you'd have to have a physical address to deliver the ballots to, an identity to assume, and match a signature. You can't use existing people, as there's a good chance you hit someone who's an actual voter and you'd have to pilfer their mail. You're also likely unable to match their signature. So you'd have to forge millions of identities, identify addresses to receive their ballots (keeping in mind that delivering 100,000 mail in ballots to one location is suspicious), and sufficiently but imperfectly match the signatures each time. Also for some states you have to use their special, marked paper that mail-in ballots use.

You'd also have to do this without alerting the USPS, skewing metrics that would identify your ballots as fraudulent (i.e. a county can't suddenly have a population boost), and keeping a lid on everyone who knows anything about the operation - even if they're unaware of what's actually going on. If the USPS was in on it from the start you can get around the part about delivery, but USPS is operated by a Trump political appointee. If you want to get around him you're talking about going directly to lower level individuals, who then have to get around their bosses as well. So that means if you're testing for a few years... you also have to get it right on every try because if you mess up once you're done. Finally, you'd have to know how many votes you need as well as proportional mail-in rates in other states.

Keep in mind that it looks like these are slowly coming in after magically appearing to be counted... but these votes that are being reported now were ones that were all delivered on or before election day. There were several states that started way blue because they counted mail-ins first, only to swing red at the end when the in-person voting was tabulated. If PA allowed for mail-in ballots to be processed before election day, we'd have known November 3rd what PA's result was. You also see that states that normally had heavy Republican mail-in voting, like Arizona, don't really have the issue of Biden getting overwhelming mail-in results. Biden repeatedly said stay home and vote by mail, Trump repeatedly said vote in person. Unless the mail-ins are counted first - which they aren't in any of the currently contested states - the results will always look like they're in Trump's favor while the mail-ins are being processed.

This was written several days before the election talking about why you'll see the swings:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wh ... ion-night/

I just can't imagine someone being able to pull this off AND keep it silent, all without leaving a single trace of evidence.
You forgot a very important thing about USPS appointee and his underlings, USPS has a large and strong Union. I assume each local and state Union are different state to state. Not saying that they have anything shady to do, but if they wanted to they could.

This election reminds me of NARCOS, I forget what season but there was massive fraud with the ballots all over the country.

@killa I disagree, there can be massive fraud across the state/country if you believe the man in power (Trump) is a racist or similar to Hitler. Then morally and ethically you can feel you get a pass.

San Goku
Posts: 510
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:41 am

Re: There we go

Post by San Goku » Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:24 am

San Goku wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:13 am
xandorxerxes wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:38 pm
Holy Cowboy wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:40 pm
Under normal circumstances, this would be more believable. However, if you had 2-4 years to prepare for 'showtime' with testing grounds and refining methods time before said 2-4 years??
Thinking out loud (this got too long, sorry):

To compromise mail-in voting you'd have to have a physical address to deliver the ballots to, an identity to assume, and match a signature. You can't use existing people, as there's a good chance you hit someone who's an actual voter and you'd have to pilfer their mail. You're also likely unable to match their signature. So you'd have to forge millions of identities, identify addresses to receive their ballots (keeping in mind that delivering 100,000 mail in ballots to one location is suspicious), and sufficiently but imperfectly match the signatures each time. Also for some states you have to use their special, marked paper that mail-in ballots use.

You'd also have to do this without alerting the USPS, skewing metrics that would identify your ballots as fraudulent (i.e. a county can't suddenly have a population boost), and keeping a lid on everyone who knows anything about the operation - even if they're unaware of what's actually going on. If the USPS was in on it from the start you can get around the part about delivery, but USPS is operated by a Trump political appointee. If you want to get around him you're talking about going directly to lower level individuals, who then have to get around their bosses as well. So that means if you're testing for a few years... you also have to get it right on every try because if you mess up once you're done. Finally, you'd have to know how many votes you need as well as proportional mail-in rates in other states.

Keep in mind that it looks like these are slowly coming in after magically appearing to be counted... but these votes that are being reported now were ones that were all delivered on or before election day. There were several states that started way blue because they counted mail-ins first, only to swing red at the end when the in-person voting was tabulated. If PA allowed for mail-in ballots to be processed before election day, we'd have known November 3rd what PA's result was. You also see that states that normally had heavy Republican mail-in voting, like Arizona, don't really have the issue of Biden getting overwhelming mail-in results. Biden repeatedly said stay home and vote by mail, Trump repeatedly said vote in person. Unless the mail-ins are counted first - which they aren't in any of the currently contested states - the results will always look like they're in Trump's favor while the mail-ins are being processed.

This was written several days before the election talking about why you'll see the swings:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wh ... ion-night/

I just can't imagine someone being able to pull this off AND keep it silent, all without leaving a single trace of evidence.
You forgot a very important thing about USPS appointee and his underlings, USPS has a large and strong Union. I assume each local and state Union are different state to state. Not saying that they have anything shady to do, but if they wanted to they could.

This election reminds me of NARCOS, I forget what season but there was massive fraud with the ballots all over the country.

@killa I disagree, there can be massive fraud across the state/country if you believe the man in power (Trump) is a racist or similar to Hitler. Then morally and ethically you can feel you get a pass.

Edit

People do it for money too lol

San Goku
Posts: 510
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:41 am

Re: There we go

Post by San Goku » Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:32 am

On the radio I heard Kanye West got 60,000 votes. The cost for his Presidential campaign was $9,000,000.00. I hope he can write that off when he does his taxes lol.

San Goku
Posts: 510
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:41 am

Re: There we go

Post by San Goku » Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:51 pm

Simple solution just recount all the legal votes in key battleground states.

I'm seeing on Fox that there is an incidental of a 'software glitch' that turned Republican votes to Democrats. Lol @ glitch, but that is another way for massive voter fraud that I didn't even consider.

I think this long stretched out election is good for America, it avoids (or maybe just delays the inevitable) of violence and killing if Trump or Biden becomes the victor.

xandorxerxes
Posts: 368
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:43 pm

Re: There we go

Post by xandorxerxes » Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:39 pm

San Goku wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:24 am
You forgot a very important thing about USPS appointee and his underlings, USPS has a large and strong Union. I assume each local and state Union are different state to state. Not saying that they have anything shady to do, but if they wanted to they could.

This election reminds me of NARCOS, I forget what season but there was massive fraud with the ballots all over the country.

@killa I disagree, there can be massive fraud across the state/country if you believe the man in power (Trump) is a racist or similar to Hitler. Then morally and ethically you can feel you get a pass.

Edit

People do it for money too lol
You're still talking about hundreds if not thousands of people keeping a secret and not even whispering it for years. None of those people would have to feel it morally wrong. You'd have to find people who hated trump enough to actually think he's hitler 2+ years ago. 2+ years ago there weren't any crises that weren't of his own making and he had increased deficit spending so it looked like our economy was doing well. Also keep in mind that if all of these votes are forged, these states are MUCH redder than they appear, which makes it even harder to find the people you'd need.

Even if all of that was successful... That's only step 1.
San Goku wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:32 am
On the radio I heard Kanye West got 60,000 votes. The cost for his Presidential campaign was $9,000,000.00. I hope he can write that off when he does his taxes lol.
I don't know election campaign tax law, but I feel reasonably sure the campaign is its own separate entity. Probably can't get that deducted, but 9M is also a rounding error for him so...
San Goku wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:51 pm
Simple solution just recount all the legal votes in key battleground states.

I'm seeing on Fox that there is an incidental of a 'software glitch' that turned Republican votes to Democrats. Lol @ glitch, but that is another way for massive voter fraud that I didn't even consider.

I think this long stretched out election is good for America, it avoids (or maybe just delays the inevitable) of violence and killing if Trump or Biden becomes the victor.
It didn't change their votes - it incorrectly reported the unofficial totals from the county to the state. It wasn't a 'glitch' in the voting systems either, it was a manual error in the software that reports unofficial totals - a completely different system. Also, everything has checks:
But they said any such errors in any county would be caught during the canvassing process, before results are declared official, when boards composed of two Democrats and two Republicans compare the numbers on the tapes printed from the tabulators to the unofficial results that were reported to the state.
This goes back to the voter fraud thing though - this was a swing of 6,000 votes that was immediately noticed because the ratio of democratic/republican voters didn't match historical norms. If it's that obvious at 6,000 votes... How do you pull off over a million?

Edit: Best comment I've seen so far - "You know what would have helped Trump? 235,000 elderly voters."

Should probably have made a separate election thread now that I think about it.

killacross
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Re: There we go

Post by killacross » Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:32 pm

Joe Biden wins

San Goku
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:41 am

Re: There we go

Post by San Goku » Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:48 pm

Looks like it's officially over now. Probably the craziest election I'll ever see in my life time.

San Goku
Posts: 510
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:41 am

Re: There we go

Post by San Goku » Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:51 pm

I'm looking forward to Kamala accidentally pushing Biden down a flight of stairs and becoming the first female black (and Indian) President.

xandorxerxes
Posts: 368
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:43 pm

Re: There we go

Post by xandorxerxes » Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:15 pm

Trump's not conceding, so it's not official yet, but the math really isn't in Trump's favor. He's still viable in GA, AZ, and NC but I think NV and PA are still outside his reach and that's all Biden needs.

Under the assumption that Biden will win (which I assume these decision desks know better than I do), it'll be interesting to see how he tries to be bipartisan and how, if at all, he tries to reestablish checks on government agencies.

San Goku
Posts: 510
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:41 am

Re: There we go

Post by San Goku » Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:18 pm

^^ Once the major networks declare a winner, it's usually over even if Trump fights it but this election is far from usual.

Van Jones said this was the Avengers v Thanos, I'm dead. 😄

killacross
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:00 am

Re: There we go

Post by killacross » Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:19 pm

San Goku wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:48 pm
Looks like it's officially over now. Probably the craziest election I'll ever see in my life time.
umm....hanging chads?
Must be a Canadian thing...because I wasn't old enough to vote...and I remember it pretty clearly....much more than Y2K even...not as much as 9/11

Digital Masta
Posts: 304
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:56 pm

Re: There we go

Post by Digital Masta » Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:09 pm

xandorxerxes wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:15 pm
if at all, he tries to reestablish checks on government agencies.
That's never going to happen.

killacross
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:00 am

Re: There we go

Post by killacross » Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:25 pm

Digital Masta wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:09 pm
xandorxerxes wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:15 pm
if at all, he tries to reestablish checks on government agencies.
That's never going to happen.
____with either party

finished that for ya ;)

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