There we go

killacross
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:00 am

Re: There we go

Post by killacross » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:59 pm

Cane_The9lives wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:26 pm
thoughtful diatribe
Baltimore
Ferguson
Atlanta
Seattle
Minneapolis
Boston
etc. etc. etc.

...no calls to violence in any of these places right? and no summary judgments either

again, agree with the bans when there are calls for violence and destruction....but just looking for consistency
Last edited by killacross on Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

xandorxerxes
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:43 pm

Re: There we go

Post by xandorxerxes » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:20 am

That's not an apples to apples comparison. A store getting vandalized isn't national news, any investigations are done by local PDs, and they make arrests when they can find them. It's not easy to track a few people breaking off a group and vandalizing a place, especially if they're in masks.

It's very easy to track people who proudly posted their videos containing the faces of everyone nearby on social media that already uses facial recognition algorithms. Trashing a store is not the same scale as attacking one of the three branches of our government while chanting to kill the 2nd in command of another. If they had stayed out of the capitol and vandalized some of the statues, grounds, or other buildings and got this same response, I'd be with you 100%.

Also to be fair, if there wasn't a strong police reaction to the other protests they might have similar ends. The lack of police presence in the capitol is related to the person who told them to march there in the first place, which just makes it that much worse.

superbob
Site Admin
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:51 am

Re: There we go

Post by superbob » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:50 am


killacross
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:00 am

Re: There we go

Post by killacross » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:53 am

xandorxerxes wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:20 am
That's not an apples to apples comparison. A store getting vandalized isn't national news, any investigations are done by local PDs, and they make arrests when they can find them. It's not easy to track a few people breaking off a group and vandalizing a place, especially if they're in masks.

It's very easy to track people who proudly posted their videos containing the faces of everyone nearby on social media that already uses facial recognition algorithms. Trashing a store is not the same scale as attacking one of the three branches of our government while chanting to kill the 2nd in command of another. If they had stayed out of the capitol and vandalized some of the statues, grounds, or other buildings and got this same response, I'd be with you 100%.

Also to be fair, if there wasn't a strong police reaction to the other protests they might have similar ends. The lack of police presence in the capitol is related to the person who told them to march there in the first place, which just makes it that much worse.
we just see it differently...there are article after article about people (who had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the riots..or who verifiable left HOURS BEFORE the riots)...being doxxed and "the mob" trying to pressure their companies or the military to fire them...or pushing for them to be arrested (...granted it's the lazy writing where they just quote twitter threads as their source)

I live in NC. Our Attorney General has asked people to identify as many as they can and/or report tips to the state or FBI so that everyone involved can be tracked down and prosecuted - the response was not the same when there were riots in Charlotte where they stormed the interstates and vandalized 18 wheelers and stole the contents, burned buildings and looted, tore down statues all across the state). Crime is crime is crime...even if the punishment is different.

You are basically saying...well, yea they were both speeding...but he was on a highway -- and he was in a school zone. I'm saying...No, it doesn't matter, they should both be ticketed and the fines can be different. What we are seeing is not that

xandorxerxes
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:43 pm

Re: There we go

Post by xandorxerxes » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:26 pm

killacross wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:53 am
You are basically saying...well, yea they were both speeding...but he was on a highway -- and he was in a school zone. I'm saying...No, it doesn't matter, they should both be ticketed and the fines can be different. What we are seeing is not that
Not quite, I'm saying "these guys are both speeding, one got a ticket for going 20mph over in a 25mph zone the other got a dui after (s)he ran over a kid crossing the street in a school zone." You'll never see shit on that 20mph ticket unless you go hunting for it except for the initial local reports. Drunkenly running over a kid in a school zone gets a tip line set up to find you. That's why I linked you 'random' articles - to show that people were being prosecuted it's just not being thrown in your face. The scale of pulling down a statue compared to storming the capitol is so massively different that there's no way they'll be handled the same.

In Parler news -

Turns out Parler was in deeper shit than I thought. It's not that they had no moderation - it's that they had moderation that explicitly allowed the violent posts. Amusingly their moderation was used to filter out leftist speech, despite their "free speech" mantra. Also...
Its public API used no authentication. When users deleted their posts, the site failed to remove the content and instead only added a delete flag to it. Oh, and each post carried a numerical ID that was incremented from the ID of the most recently published one.
Another amateur mistake was Parler’s failure to scrub geolocations from images and videos posted online. Sites like Twitter and Google routinely remove such metadata from content posted by their users. The video files hosted on Parler, by contrast, were “raw,” meaning they still contained this information.
They should get shut down for that alone.

Digital Masta
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:56 pm

Re: There we go

Post by Digital Masta » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:32 pm

xandorxerxes wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:26 pm
killacross wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:53 am
You are basically saying...well, yea they were both speeding...but he was on a highway -- and he was in a school zone. I'm saying...No, it doesn't matter, they should both be ticketed and the fines can be different. What we are seeing is not that
Not quite, I'm saying "these guys are both speeding, one got a ticket for going 20mph over in a 25mph zone the other got a dui after (s)he ran over a kid crossing the street in a school zone." You'll never see shit on that 20mph ticket unless you go hunting for it except for the initial local reports. Drunkenly running over a kid in a school zone gets a tip line set up to find you. That's why I linked you 'random' articles - to show that people were being prosecuted it's just not being thrown in your face. The scale of pulling down a statue compared to storming the capitol is so massively different that there's no way they'll be handled the same.
So basically the idea that the government doesn't care that your city or neighborhood is destroyed or that people are coming and just destroying shit. Just don't come to their house or else they will take you out.


Hey guys, have you ever just sat and thought about how Kamala Harris diversity hired her way to Vice President? And that's not even me being mean, that's quite literally what happened. She was doing so badly in the primaries that she ended her run before her own state voted and then gets picked up by Biden for being black and a woman...well...half black. (At least Obama went all in on being black, even married a black woman as opposed to Harris who is black when it suits her and then Indian when it suits her. I mean yes he is from both backgrounds but she frame herself that way majority of the time, it flips depending on who she is talking to...but anyway) I mean she is the textbook definition of diversity hire.

She may very well be the first diversity hire president in the realist sense of the of the word, where she wasn't even voted in, the president just died or was so senile that he was drooling on himself and left office.

xandorxerxes
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:43 pm

Re: There we go

Post by xandorxerxes » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:50 pm

Digital Masta wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:32 pm
So basically the idea that the government doesn't care that your city or neighborhood is destroyed or that people are coming and just destroying shit. Just don't come to their house or else they will take you out.
More like...

The FBI doesn't care that your neighborhood is destroyed or that people are coming and just destroying shit unless they're asked to be brought in by your local police department. If you commit a federal crime, especially one that has massive impact on the functioning of our government, they will take you out. Your local PD can take care of your neighborhood.

That we're even equating monetary damage to a business to storming the capitol means that we were already too far apart to ever reach any real understanding of each other, but hopefully I'm at least conveying what I'm trying to say at this point.

Digital Masta
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:56 pm

Re: There we go

Post by Digital Masta » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:54 pm

xandorxerxes wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:50 pm
That we're even equating monetary damage to a business to storming the capitol means that we were already too far apart to ever reach any real understanding of each other, but hopefully I'm at least conveying what I'm trying to say at this point.

That boat set sail loooong ago, my friend.

killacross
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:00 am

Re: There we go

Post by killacross » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:58 pm

xandorxerxes wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:50 pm
That we're even equating monetary damage to a business to storming the capitol means that we were already too far apart to ever reach any real understanding of each other, but hopefully I'm at least conveying what I'm trying to say at this point.
Image

wot?
We understand what you are saying...I think we all fundamentally disagree

That being said.. I'm sure we would all get along in person

Cane_The9lives
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:15 pm

Re: There we go

Post by Cane_The9lives » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:49 am

killacross wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:53 am

I live in NC. Our Attorney General has asked people to identify as many as they can and/or report tips to the state or FBI so that everyone involved can be tracked down and prosecuted - the response was not the same when there were riots in Charlotte where they stormed the interstates and vandalized 18 wheelers and stole the contents, burned buildings and looted, tore down statues all across the state). Crime is crime is crime...even if the punishment is different.

You are basically saying...well, yea they were both speeding...but he was on a highway -- and he was in a school zone. I'm saying...No, it doesn't matter, they should both be ticketed and the fines can be different. What we are seeing is not that
I agree that Crime is crime and in a perfect world justice would be meted out fairly and consistently, but you know just as well as I do (So much so I don't even need to cite examples) that's just not always the case, with the extraneous forces that are always lying in wait to attach themselves like coked up leeches starved of blood for months.

I'm not drawing a distinction between the legality of the aforementioned summer riots and the events that took place last Wednesday, I'm merely stating that the imbalance is optical not judicial. A siege the likes of which we saw at the Capitol is inherently going to have an entire fleet of exigent circumstances trailing behind it. A televised storming of the legislative body of this country; the seat of political power and one of the most iconic symbols of American exceptionalism embodied in the form of a building that hasn't been breached since the war of 1812 is far from a pedestrian event.

Irrespective of the fact that a commensurate response (even under those circumstances) would be the correct and fair course of action, it was never going to play out like that given all the unprecedented components and countervailing details. Throw in the perception(real or imagined) that the president himself indirectly contributed to the riot and you have a national controversy with all the trappings of an ordinary mob uprising, but unique in its foundation being rooted in insurrectionist motivations that was publicly traced( again either by real or imagined bread crumbs) right back to the Executive.

Your position is indisputably true.
The expectation of equal response is(unfortunately) unrealistic.

xandorxerxes
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:43 pm

Re: There we go

Post by xandorxerxes » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:38 am

killacross wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:58 pm
wot?
We understand what you are saying...I think we all fundamentally disagree
Cane_The9lives wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:49 am
I agree that Crime is crime and in a perfect world justice would be meted out fairly and consistently, but you know just as well as I do (So much so I don't even need to cite examples) that's just not always the case, with the extraneous forces that are always lying in wait to attach themselves like coked up leeches starved of blood for months.
Based on Cane's response, I guess I'm not getting what you guys are saying then. I read it as "why are these rioters getting the third degree when the ones in the summer weren't." Since I'm off base I'll just shut up on it.
killacross wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:58 pm
That being said.. I'm sure we would all get along in person
I'm still pretty insufferable, but you can at least tell when I'm trying to be sarcastic.

Edit: I said all of that, then I get to this: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/202 ... t-threats/
But far from getting cut off suddenly, Parler had months of warning, Amazon says. Amazon's filing included copies of emails it sent to Parler in mid-November (PDF, content warning for racial slurs) containing screenshots full of racist invective about Democrats, including former First Lady Michelle Obama, with a series of responses from other users to "kill 'em all."

Amazon provided "more than 100 additional representative pieces of content" advocating violence on Parler over the following seven weeks, the company said. Another document in the filing (PDF, also with content warning for racial slurs and threats of violence) lays out dozens of examples of posts Amazon reported to Parler, beginning in mid-December. Those posts call for, among other things: killing a specific transgender person; actively wishing for a race war and the murder of Black and Jewish people; and killing several activists and politicians such as Stacey Abrams, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.), and former President Barack Obama.

eddieson
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:00 am

Re: There we go

Post by eddieson » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:50 am

What are you all arguing about this time? Cause tl;dr

killacross
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:00 am

Re: There we go

Post by killacross » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:39 am

@Cane -- that was the correct response.

@XX -- We are arguing that ALL of the people involved...on BOTH sides...TOP to bottom....suck.
It looks like you keep trying to point out the shitty behavior of one side...while excusing it on the other...or saying "it wasn't that bad" as justification. In America...you are [supposed to be] equal in the eyes of the law. That's why lady justice is blind...etc etc

Cane's response is that they ALL suck...and No, it is not "fair" enforcement...but people are involved so it obviously would not be fair because people suck in general.

@Edds...politics / nothing particularly important

xandorxerxes
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:43 pm

Re: There we go

Post by xandorxerxes » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:48 pm

killacross wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:39 am
@XX -- We are arguing that ALL of the people involved...on BOTH sides...TOP to bottom....suck.
It looks like you keep trying to point out the shitty behavior of one side...while excusing it on the other...or saying "it wasn't that bad" as justification. In America...you are [supposed to be] equal in the eyes of the law. That's why lady justice is blind...etc etc
No, I'm saying everyone who committed a crime should be prosecuted. What I'm trying to say is that the reason you're seeing all of this news and not the other news is because the other news isn't as important. Everyone they can find for the summer protests/vandals is still getting charged, they're still getting prosecuted. The charges are completely different. The investigative authorities are completely different. The scale is completely different. That's why the response is completely different. Obviously more serious crimes result in more serious charges. Also note that of the almost 100 arrests in the capitol break-in, only the most high-profile ones are being reported.

Yes, I agree that justice should be blind. But justice is carried out by people who are very much not blind and when better attorneys yield better results for more affluent people you're going to get that classist-skew that the privileged can be above the law.

tl;dr - everyone is getting (rightfully) prosecuted, it's just your perception they aren't based on what news you're seeing.

killacross
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:00 am

Re: There we go

Post by killacross » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:49 pm

xandorxerxes wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:48 pm
No, I'm saying everyone who committed a crime should be prosecuted. What I'm trying to say is that the reason you're seeing all of this news and not the other news is because the other news isn't as important. Everyone they can find for the summer protests/vandals is still getting charged, they're still getting prosecuted. The charges are completely different. The investigative authorities are completely different. The scale is completely different. That's why the response is completely different. Obviously more serious crimes result in more serious charges. Also note that of the almost 100 arrests in the capitol break-in, only the most high-profile ones are being reported.

Yes, I agree that justice should be blind. But justice is carried out by people who are very much not blind and when better attorneys yield better results for more affluent people you're going to get that classist-skew that the privileged can be above the law.

tl;dr - everyone is getting (rightfully) prosecuted, it's just your perception they aren't based on what news you're seeing.
we get that the coverage is different from media outlets...but the response from the "authorities" is not the same

that's why you had CHAZ/CHOP zones
that's why rioters tried to burn down a police HQ with police inside
that's why you had police told to stand down in Baltimore
that's why a mob can break into a community...and then the homeowners are charged for showing they were armed
that's why you have these Defund the Police initiatives all across the country
that's why you had police being called and ambushed across the country
that's why you have media montage after montage of commnentators [and politicians - until they were called out and had to walk it back or clarify their stance] saying that the riots this summer don't "need" to be peaceful or non-violent

...but the second people step foot on those hallowed grounds [and let's be honest -- because the ruling class was pressured vs the serfs]....no expense should be spared to track them down...EVEN PEOPLE WHO WERE NOT VIOLENT OR INVOLVED

we must be talking past each other...but at least we agree -- EVERYONE who commits a crime should be arrested and prosecuted. And leave it at that

...which reminds me of the poor little girl who tackled the 14 year old for "her" cellphone. More info is coming out about her...and it just makes her [and her parents] look worse :lol: :lol:

xandorxerxes
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:43 pm

Re: There we go

Post by xandorxerxes » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:45 pm

killacross wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:49 pm

we get that the coverage is different from media outlets...but the response from the "authorities" is not the same
It's true, but the other way around...
The disparity in police response only grew when comparing peaceful leftwing versus rightwing protests. Looking at the subset of protests in which demonstrators did not engage in any violence, vandalism, or looting, law enforcement officers were about 3.5 times more likely to use force against leftwing protests than rightwing protests, with about 1.8% of peaceful leftwing protests and only half a percent of peaceful rightwing protests met with teargas, rubber bullets or other force from law enforcement.
Raw data here: https://acleddata.com/special-projects/ ... s-monitor/

That said, most protests are peaceful:
Overall, 94% of the leftwing demonstrations in the past ten months were peaceful, compared with 96% of the rightwing demonstrations, according to ACLED’s most recently updated data. Kishi cautioned that the process of categorizing demonstrations as peaceful did not take into account whether demonstrators who engaged in violence or property damage were responding to aggressive or violent behavior from the police.

The US Crisis Monitor previously found that, despite Trump’s rhetoric and the intense media coverage of property damage or violence during protests this summer against police violence, more than 93% of Black Lives Matter protests since April had involved no harm to people or damage to property.
Of course that small percentage adds up (~1,000 of all protests - left + right - resulting in violence based on my super-quick-and-dirty mental math).

killacross
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:00 am

Re: There we go

Post by killacross » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:21 pm

good day sir
...I SAID GOOD DAY

It's not that I'm discounting your sources or your quick and dirty research

...I'm just exhausted with the topic and am satisfied with:
killacross wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:49 pm
we agree -- EVERYONE who commits a crime should be arrested and prosecuted. And leave it at that

xandorxerxes
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:43 pm

Re: There we go

Post by xandorxerxes » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:54 pm

killacross wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:21 pm
good day sir
...I SAID GOOD DAY

It's not that I'm discounting your sources or your quick and dirty research

...I'm just exhausted with the topic and am satisfied with:
killacross wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:49 pm
we agree -- EVERYONE who commits a crime should be arrested and prosecuted. And leave it at that
You're totally right. I just thought to myself "I really shouldn't have put that" and was going to go add an addendum saying as such, but you already saw it. Definitely my bad.

killacross
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:00 am

Re: There we go

Post by killacross » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:51 pm

It's all gravy my dude

Edit: Andrew Yang is back at it again... Please please please vote him in NYC.

Digital Masta
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:56 pm

Re: There we go

Post by Digital Masta » Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:02 am

Well everyone HATES DeBlasio so...maybe?

Post Reply