[Discussion] Poilitics 2017

Discussion in 'General' started by superbob, Dec 16, 2016.

  1. killacross Ninensei

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    i agree
    you cant say nonsense...then backpedal it with..."you admit to B?"..."well, I said A but I really meant B"

    then youll have ass kissers like Rush saying "You cant take trump literally" or sycophants like Hannity who say "we all knew what he really meant"

    if trump tweeted
    ..its a shame that Obama's administration started a witchhunt against me during the election
    ...its a shame that Obama's administration is wasting their time looking for misbehavior that didn't happen

    the left would still have a conniption fit and call him an idiot and what not
    Comey would still say..."Yes, we probed his organization"
    and that would be vindication

    ...the BS that he is peddling now...ugh
  2. San Goku Otaku

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    It's pretty sad that I instinctively try to defend Trump because his first 2 months in office has been plagued in bias media but ya I can't disagree with you @Cane.
  3. Digital Masta Peek A Boo

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  4. XandorXerxes Sannensei

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    I haven't seen a huge bias in the actual news. Talking heads on both sides though...

    It's the media's job to report on the president. Just because the president doesn't like what the media reports doesn't mean the media is biased or put out fake news.

    No, it wouldn't.

    There isn't a shred of proof that said the Obama administration performed politically motivated spying on Trump. The investigation started in July, and is currently ongoing. The investigation wasn't about Trump, it was about the Russians. Trump got involved when network traffic from a Russian bank made a series of unusual connections (extremely large number of DNS lookups) to a server being used by Trump's organization. Openly calling for Russia to hack the US to "find Hillary's missing emails" didn't help matters either.

    Russia has also been tied to multiple hacks in the US and abroad (especially in Ukraine). There's a mountain of evidence that points to Russia as the culprit, but none of the evidence is enough to say on its own that it's definitely Russia (the likelihood of finding that evidence in any decent state-sponsored attack is slim to none).

    You wouldn't know that from listening to Trump, but Trump's camp came up with the term "alternative facts" for a reason.
  5. Cane_The9lives Indubitably.

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    Eric bolling's losing his absolute shit on the five fight now.

    I don't know what saddens me the most, blind sycophants like bolling and Hannity who pounce with such alacrity at any tidbit of data that supposedly constitutes "Breaking news" that adds facile plausibility to their orange god's flights of lunacy, or the fact that we have a president who constantly engenders these reactions to draw attention away from his incalculable twitter tirades.

    This is the reality we live in now.
    A place where moron's who cant see(or refuse out of extreme devotion) the forest from the tree's because they are two busy genuflecting and coddling the childish whimsy of a man completely divorced from reality.

    I think Devin Nune's just auditioned for a future cabinet position.
  6. San Goku Otaku

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    So with Nune's statement it's safe to say Trump was right about the wiretapping smh lol.
  7. Cane_The9lives Indubitably.

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    No.

    Incidental collection is not wiretapping, this isn't even a new revelation.
    Nune's said nothing today that gives any weight to trumps claims, what's at issue here is not the intercepts but the unmasking of the US citizens who were caught up in this collection. Under FISA they are supposed to have their identities kept secret, this apparently didn't happen in certain cases.

    This is a classic shift of script, they are figuratively stumbling over themselves to help trump seem less foolish and save face.
    Take his decision to rush this directly to the Whitehouse rather than divulging it to the house intelligence committee, of which he is the chair of. Devin Nune's as you may or may not know, was a member of trump's transition team and the very last person in my estimation to be an "Impartial" arbiter in this matter. Instead of following protocol and handing over the information, he rushed like a zealot spawned from the flaming bowels of Donald trumps ass on a white horse to 1600 Pennsylvania ave to deliver an attenuated lifeline to the presidents ongoing credibility issue.

    Just look at his phraseology

    He's insinuating himself personally into the issue and attempting to make a broad emotional appeal disguised as an ethical dilemma. Don't get me wrong, the unmasking is a real issue and very troubling, and indeed highly illegal.

    But this incessant mountain building out of molehill's and then declaring victory when a legitimate concern arises by means of secondary disclosure only highlights the desperation of the enablers and further compounds discourse that leads to nowhere and siphons away political capitol the president could apply more productively elsewhere.

    Has it been four years yet?
  8. XandorXerxes Sannensei

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    No, he isn't. The Patriot Act for years has allowed everyone's information to be vacuumed up, especially in cases where you're corresponding with someone overseas. If you email DM, your information will be collected by the NSA. That's exactly what happened here - they corresponded with the Russians, their information was collected.

    This is nothing new, I've been protesting it for years, I was saddened that Obama expanded the powers of the Patriot Act.

    DT also specifically stated that Trump Tower was wiretapped. This doesn't have anything to do with Trump Tower, and it's certainly not even the same medium as a wiretap. That Nunes went to the media first with the information instead of his own committee should tell you something.
  9. San Goku Otaku

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    Of course incidental collection isn't wiretapping, did you actually type that with a straight face? Cause I wouldn't be able to. Let's say something was found would it and should it be dismissed because it was incidental collection? I'm pretty sure it's esay to pass off a lot of collection as 'incidental collection' in the intelligence world. Lets remember the stakes were pretty damn high last year so any and everyone wanted to collect as much 'incidental collection' as they could. It was a fail attempt to tie Trump to Russia to ensure he wouldn't get into office.

    Link: https://definedterm.com/incidental_collection

    I'm sure we discussed the expanding of powers on here awhile back so no argument there. Nunes went to Trump first and then the media and he even answered why he did that cause like you a reporter asked him that question and he said there is nothing related to his team and Russia, therefore the President should be made aware of this type of intel.
  10. Cane_The9lives Indubitably.

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    Wait what?
    You're not capable of typing "Incidental collection isn't wiretapping"? Yet you're capable of typing:
    At what point is this statement reconcilable with known fact?

    There's this funny thing called "Procedure".
    The committee charged with investigating these claims and analyzing the data are entitled, believe it or not, to this information before even trump gets his hands on it.

    Trump handed this investigation off to them and then recused themselves from it.
    Any sort of improper disclosure before the overseeing body has a chance to form preliminary assessments compromises the integrity of the investigation, because its circumventing the entire process all together.
    Nunes was in such a rush to legitimize trump he forgot basic decorum, and made it seem like he was just itching to reel this fish in with the slightest of nibbles.

    As to your quick Googling of incidental collection, I would suggest you peruse this.
    https://medium.com/@BHanssen/why-th...t-program-may-well-be-a01817e161c4#.i7640mhtz

    "Incidental Collection" also includes mere indirect reference, Ie the surveilled sweeps up a bystander by mentioning the person passively.
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  11. San Goku Otaku

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    I'm trying to say how easy it probably is to say I'm not spying on Trump when in fact I am but I can say it's because of the Russians to cover that lie up.

    Are we really gonna go there with procedure when the Gov clearly has problems with leaks and moles in their organization from conversations with Australia PM and Mexico President getting out....... No your right if there is a proper procedure it should be followed but I stand my thought in people trying to conveniently say they were only incidental collection being done won't fly with most.
  12. Cane_The9lives Indubitably.

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    You don't get a FISA warrant by just nonchalantly contacting a judge, pointing to a picture of Donald trump and exclaiming "He's in bed with the russkies, gimme my intel!!!"

    If this indeed went before a court, they had to show considerable evidence that such collection was warranted and possessed probable cause. The FBI and the NSA can only submit the request, they do not carry out the decision.
    The presidents hands are even more tied.

    So your argument becomes, because unknown actors within the intelligence community are acting improperly by leaking this information, we should just cast away all semblance of propriety out of some twisted sense of political force majeure?

    And san my god, "Incidental collection" IS WHAT'S GOING ON HERE.
  13. San Goku Otaku

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    I think there are people that don't ever want to see a shift with U.S to Russia friendlier relation (for good reason). President Trump seems like he's open to that idea if possible and because of that people are trying to create this Trump and Russia ties. I could be wrong though, we'll see.
  14. Holy Cowboy Brigade Chief

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    I saw in some circles that Trump's antics, news media, etc. are intentional to keep the news media attention on him while his people work in the background to 'Make America Great Again.' To use the wrestlemania GIF as example. Vince McMahon's attention is on Trump while Trump's people are doing things with Wrestlemania in the background without Vince noticing.
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  15. XandorXerxes Sannensei

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    Senate voted 50-48 down party lines (2 Republicans abstained) to prevent FCC ISP privacy regulations designed to prevent ISPs from collecting sensitive data from their subscribers without their permission. Most every news site has it plastered on their front page... Fox news is totally mum on the subject.

    They do have "Philadelphia cop accused of dumping his dog at park" though. Obviously that's pretty important.
  16. San Goku Otaku

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    Failure on Trump and Republicans today on Health Care Bill. Obama must be chuckling on his couch in his boxers.
  17. killacross Ninensei

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    This administration seems to be really good at rushing things to market before they are ready
  18. Cane_The9lives Indubitably.

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    [IMG]


    Also, had to post this.

    Few do vexation with the same consistency and uncompromised argumentation. Gotta tip my hat off to ben here.

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  19. San Goku Otaku

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    That's an interesting analogy with the Drug spot by Ben Shapiro but one can also use that drug analogy and say 5 hours after the drug exchange goes down you leave the hidden mic on all the time there after. I can agree that it's possible that people are lying on both sides, that shouldn't surprise anyone if that is what's going on.

    edit

    Just got to the part where Ben talks about Trump keeps opening his mouth towards the end and :again: can't say that he's wrong. Twitter especially has gotten him in unnecessary media trouble.
  20. Holy Cowboy Brigade Chief

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    I can certainly see where Ben Shapiro is coming from. Thing is how will democrats react to this? From what I have seen and watched, they come off as a 'all or nothing' crowd. Shift an inch outside their beliefs and you get crucified.

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