[Discussion] Poilitics 2017

Discussion in 'General' started by superbob, Dec 16, 2016.

  1. Digital Masta Peek A Boo

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    I'm gonna need more details on VOICE. At first glance it doesn't sit well with me. Although you can count on media to ramp that shit up to one million. I googled it to find out more and the first link "this is how genocide begins." Oh for fucks sake.

    Also, that infrasctructure plan is doodie...straight doodie. We don't need increased military spending, we are leagues above every other god damn military on the planet. We don't more shit. The military could actually use some cuts in budget. They waste so much money.
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  2. XandorXerxes Sannensei

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    It's more Breitbart nonsense... a new government agency to publish a list of crimes performed by any aliens (legal or illegal). He's claiming that the media and special interests are burying all the immigrant violence out there.

    Essentially he's spending a bunch of money in order to try to justify his immigrant ban, because he can't admit he's wrong.
  3. Cane_The9lives Indubitably.

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    [IMG]

    Pretty much my reaction in a nutshell.

    Even the mere suggestion of VOICE being a slippery slope to genocide induces my skin to literally crawl off its bones.
    But I am concerned with this program, I think it could be used as a cudgel for populist demagoguery.
  4. killacross Ninensei

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    so next topic that piqued my interests

    ...Janet Yellen is likely the next person to be let go
    she made a statement that hints/implies dramatic rate hikes later this month...which would DEFINITELY cause the stock market to tumble

    ...I think I said this before -- market plummets, the media will drone on and on about how Trumps policies, agenda, administration have tanked the economy and he must be impeached

    ...my biggest concern is that Ive only saved about $15k since Dec and shits about to go on SALE :(...damn
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  5. superbob Suspended in a sunbeam

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    It should have started at least a year ago...
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  6. killacross Ninensei

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    I do not disagree with you...I said it was artificial in another thread some time ago

    ...we likely disagree on the reason behind it though
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  7. San Goku Otaku

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    Trump looks like he's making shit up again w/ saying Obama admin wiretapped his office.....although if he said CNN was feeding Clinton town hall answers w/o evidence it would be shocking.
  8. Cane_The9lives Indubitably.

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    And fox news(which I watch) will in all probability be in full damage control measures considering how much they've hyped up the recent market boom as "Trump enthusiasm". It's very emblematic of the polarized times in this country when the one network that is invested and/or aligned with the administration's political affiliation's stands alone as a bulwark of supposed biased and fake news, and seems credible merely on the strength of being an ideological minority, will suddenly be forced to come to grips with realities they will feel almost compelled to spin out of partisan loyalty.

    The irony being, if or when times do get bad, they will turn into the very thing they decry on a nightly basis.
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  9. San Goku Otaku

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    Anyone jump on the SNAP.inc train?
  10. killacross Ninensei

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    truth be told...it IS trump enthusiasm
    there is no other explanation for it...a political leader takes office with promises of spending a billion/trillion dollars on infrastructure or military or tax refunds....eliminating 70% of regulations

    companies...and in turn the stock market takes notice

    if trumps campaign was on changing the foodstamp program to only offering cheese, peanut butter and orange juice...you could bet that Kraft, JIF and minute maid stocks would skyrocket

    the problem is that the markets were premature in doing so...the markets have reacted as if trump actually DID impose his agenda

    the other problem is the political motivation to put them in their place

    I genuinely believe that a "successful" trump agenda/term would be the absolute worst thing for the democrat party

    if he can create millions of jobs, lower taxes,and reduce the deficit significantly....THAT becomes the campaign for the next Rep. darling
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  11. XandorXerxes Sannensei

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    I'll just leave this here...

    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-whats-warming-the-world/

    Well sure, but that's not going to happen, especially if he got everything he wanted.

    There's no way you can pretend to give people healthcare while removing the individual mandate that won't increase the deficit significantly, especially if you're also going to increase military spending 10%. Lowering taxes on top of it? Not even possible to lower the deficit. Expecting supply-side economics to increase (quality) jobs is also far-fetched. Less insured people means more expenses going to hospitals as well.

    He could artificially inflate the number of people doing "unskilled labor" jobs by putting in tariffs and trying to bring jobs back to the US, but that's just going to spike inflation in the US. Clothes are made in Bangladesh because people (in general) would rather buy cheap clothes than quality clothes, otherwise they'd still be made in the US or wherever the quality clothes came from.
  12. Cane_The9lives Indubitably.

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    That's all well and good, and I'm not denying that is or isn't genuinely happening, merely remarking upon the difficulty of saying that with any degree of certainty when we're talking about a perception or general feeling, rather than quantifiable data.

    Now I understand an important part of the stock market is investor confidence, and the graphs can rise and fall at the drop of a hat on the mere intimation of a foreboding prognostication from the market boffins.
    But (And please answer honestly) what would your approximation of the response from the right be if this occurred early on in a Clinton administration? Do you honestly believe they'd be pushing the same narrative?

    With the markets being the transient entities that they are, and the political spectrums reaction to them so contrasting and malleable, can either side really hang their hat on anything tangible? After all, we saw what were at the time market soars under the Obama administration( granted at a different juncture of his presidency) but I've never been one to give much credit to the prescriptive axiom that presidents have a direct line to the DJIA, S&P 500, NASDAQ etc.
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  13. killacross Ninensei

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    If the stock market had stagnated or slowly increased for the past 8 years.. Then INCREASED immediately after a regime change.. And then continued even after a rate hike... to historic levels.. Yes, they (fox) would attribute it to the president.. But they would also point out the fact that it's not genuine/justified growth and say be prepared for the sky to fall because that's what they do (that would be the narrative because that has been the narrative 2008-2016 -growth here but failing records here here and here)

    You make it sound like the previous administration didn't spend 4 years blaming the admin before them.. And like cnbc.. ABC... NBC.. MSN didn't jump right in on that bandwagon

    Also I disagree... a president has tremendous control/power.. Which is why it's the BULLY pulpit ..

    I think I've said it before somewhere.. The president can only make your life harder... He can't make it better
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  14. Cane_The9lives Indubitably.

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    On the contrary, I have commented extensively on the cyclical nature of the "Inherited crisis" stratagem that rears its ugly head on both sides of the aisle every four years. Every administration blames the former, it's as American as apple pie.

    As to the commentating of those networks you mentioned, I cant speak to that because (And prepared to be shocked) I don't actively watch them. But of course I saw even from the outskirts how fervently obsequious they were towards Barack Obama at roughly the same level fox was for bush.

    Again, you weren't talking about power. You were referring to a trump enthusiasm that supposedly lended itself to a market spike.
    Trumps not exercising any executive force or authority by just sitting in the oval office. At best he's emitting a trumpian gravitas(obnoxious, but convincing) that could possibly be ameliorating certain reservations amongst the global markets.

    But therein lies the danger inherent in relying solely on your personality and charisma, he keeps opening his mouth and that gravitas-well is going to dry up faster than the Gobi desert.
  15. killacross Ninensei

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    The enthusiasm is BECAUSE he has power

    The market gives 2 fucks what hillary or GWBush or bill or GHWB think right now

    ... Shouldn't have to state the obvious
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  16. Cane_The9lives Indubitably.

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    Post edited, lets keep the insults to a minimum.

    Again, assumed power and the confidence that the administration of said power will confer prosperity on those subject to it is dependent not on the existence of it, but who wields it.

    If the market boost is in fact a result of the "Trump effect" eventually that will break through the barrier of perception and materialize into actual quantifiable data, at which point I wont deny or diminish what should be rightfully attributed to him. But I remain skeptical, and have always been on this subject regardless of the party affiliation of sitting presidents due to the capricious nature of the stock market and the curious tendency on the part of partisans to immediately assign victory.

    It's the political equivalent of an overzealous boxing promoter, true masters of the hype apparatus.

    And periods are your friend mate, use them.
  17. killacross Ninensei

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  18. XandorXerxes Sannensei

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    Trump being Trump has an immediate effect (or did, people are getting used to his psychopathy), but not a long-term one. Once he starts actually making policy, after about 5 years we may see exactly what effect he has.

    Just going by the DOW, Obama (like Clinton and Reagan before him) was amazing for the economy. Banks are as profitable as ever, why do we need less regulation?

    P.S. Killa, you should know that all of those news sources are fake news, at least according to Trump. Sheesh, get some real sources already.
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  19. killacross Ninensei

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    This is all Im saying... It has an effect that is not justifiable but is attributable

    Also.. The fake news comment made me chuckle
  20. San Goku Otaku

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    This fisa warrant stuff with Trump is interesting.

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