now that I can stomach.
Stronger people can be taken out much easier if they are distracted and Rukia was distracted by a human who had insane spiritual power and this dumbass human's actions who she then had to save.
Ummm....when was this? Are you referring to final getsuga? Because it wasn't revealed that Isshin was more than just a human until after he (Ichigo) already achieved ban kai.
Let's keep in mind here that the royal guard members are special...BUT at the same time they aren't. One of these guys dies...eventually someone else from the Gotei 13 will get promoted (it might be a while). Just like Hikifune got promoted, she was "just" (I use that word lightly) a Captain who fit two requirements...powerful and created something of great significance. I'd be willing to bet that had they not been kicked out or evil, Urahara and Aizen would probably have been candidates later in their careers.
They were ALL just basic shinigami at one point. Just like Yama was a basic Shinigami at one point. So other than the fact that these guys are both great inventors and extremely powerful they are still just Shinigami. Random ass mutant abilities that have never existed before (within the context of Bleach) aren't exactly part of the shinigami world. And just leaving it as "Oh...okay. That totally makes sense." bothers me.
Here is the scenario I'd imagine some thousands upon thousands of years ago:
Oetsu: OH! Hey guys...look what I just invented, it's called an asauchi. If we spend enough time with them...eventually a part of our souls will get imparted onto them, they will develop a name and once you know it's name, they will evolve into weapons of great power. Also...added bonus...we can purify hollows with this so their souls can get peace.
Ichibei: Let's call it a zanpakuto instead of asauchi when that happens.
Yama: I'm totally gonna be first and mine's totally gonna be the best.
(Because Yama is godlike )Yama: Hey guys...mine has become a zanpakuto, told you I'd be first. Interestingly enough, after I learned the name it changed...oh by the way its name is...
Ichibei: RYUUJIN JAKKA!!!!!!!!!
Yama: Uh...yeah. How the hell do you know that?
Oetsu: Yeah, man...how do you know that? I created every single asauchi and I know exactly where each one is, because well...I created them so I have a special bond with them. So how is it that you...who is completely unrelated to the process of creating any of these, know the name of his zanpakuto?
Ichibei: I dunno, I just do. Guys...let's call it a "shikai" when you learn the name of it and it changes shape.
Oetsu: Guys...is everyone else not curious how Ichibei can do this? It makes no sense.
*Even later in time...
Yama: I REACHED THE NEXT LEVEL, BITCHES!
Ichibei: Let's call that a bankai!
Yama: Yeah...and mine's called...
Ichibei: ZANKA NO TACHI!
Yama: STOP DOING THAT!!!!
Oetsu: Fuck you, Ichibei...fuck you.
Rationalize it all you want...but fact remains that a guy that had zero to do with the creation of the actual zanpakuto (other than giving the SS words to call these weapons) being able to just randomly know the most intricate details of every single person's zanpakuto makes no sense.
This is priceless. Dm finally lost it as well. Welcome to the clueless cause kubo doesn't make any sense group (tentative title)
It isn't the ability so much as it is the person who has it.
EDIT: Or if Kubo explained as to why he is somehow different from every single shinigami in the history of the SS...that might help. Kinda like how Komamura is different because he comes from a clan of werewolves (even though that still isn't the most clear...BUT ANYWAY).
Like I said before. It's just gonna go on the list of "things that make no sense" it's not gonna make me hate Bleach or anything. But don't try and tell me it's in anyway legit.
I'm scratching my head right now. Because Delpheous is back but that comment about Rukia was wrong. I felt like Delpheous would have known that Ichigo was interfering with Rukia's senses. We know this because she said that how can she not know there was a hollow coming? Which meant Ichigo was so powerful that Rukia got sucked into Ichigo's bubble.
Is someone spoofing Delpheous Something doesn't seem right. And I can't quite put my finger on it. Perhaps it's just father time that's messing with my memory.
Anyways regarding this debate. I mean we don't know how this RG guy knows or does what he does. I mean there's a difference between just naming everything when it's created. That's kind of silly.
But what if this RG was the guy that's able to communicate with anything and everything. That's like you naming your dog "Sparky". But then the RG comes in and he looks at it. Just because you don't see it. It could be having a telepathic communication with the dog and says. His name is actually Mr. Sparkles.
I get what Digital Masta's saying, but I'm going to wait for the full extent of the Royal Guard's capabilities before harping. Remember they were remade by the Soul King if I remember correctly and were given a lot of things. They aren't exactly ... the same species as we usually know the shinigami to be.
Also I don't know where you're getting the fact that he names zanpaktou's specific individual names. All we've seen is him 'seeing' or discerning the name. He saw the power there and then he discerned its name.
I didn't say he named them...I said he knows what the names are. In my silly example above I was having him say the name before Yama could say it himself because Ichibei knows what the name is.
Their bodies were turned into keys. But keep in mind that every single member was known for something BEFORE becoming a member, it was for that reason they were selected. Meaning he had been doing this name thing way before he became a member.
You know who he represents? He's Hiruzen Saruboti from Naruto aka the Third Hokage aka The Professor - one who knows everything. .
I took it a step farther:
Oetsu: OH! Hey guys... look what I just invented, it's called an -
Oetsu: The hell is an asuachi? Ok, sure, whatever. If we spend enough time with them eventually a part of what makes us will...
Oetsu: Sure, souls. A part of our souls will get imparted onto them, they will develop a name and once you know it's name, they will evolve into weapons of great power. Also...added bonus...we can purify those monsters...
Oetsu: Ooooook, hollows, I guess cause their chest is hollow. Sure. Anyways, we can purify hollows with this so their souls can get peace.
Ichibei: You guys do know I have Tourette syndrome, right?
4th: Hey 3rd, we just had our kid! We're going to call him...
4th: Well, no, we were going to say Hiruzen, but I guess Naruto works too.
3rd: No, I'm just hungry honestly.
4th: Too late! He's totally Naruto now.
3rd: That's dumb.
4th: Meant to tell you that too... so is he.
I'm actually surprised nobody is making a bigger deal out of the fact that the biggest underdog in shounen made a big win! People can no longer call him the yamcha of bleach!
Renji was never Yamcha...he was Vegeta.
Ishida is Gohan ftw
started DBZ kai a few weeks ago and Vegeta is far too cool to be associated with Renji.
You sir, just got a red card
He's got a ways to go before he gets that cool. But his potential is much better because Vegeta is so damn stubborn and Renji doesn't seem to really care about how to win just being the best he can be. Much better attitude imo. He's also bro as fuck.
dbz was goku-centric series. it was always about him doing everything and when Toriyama wanted gohan to take the lead people protested (and editors)
Bleach on other hand has much stronger supporting cast than DBZ. There is no comparison between Yamcha and Renji: one did nothing since his introduction and had been a joke every single time we saw him, getting owned by every enemy he encountered, while second contributes to the story and is capable fighter. He is also much more developed as character.
I always thought Byakuya was very Vegeta like. Proud,arrogant, strong, oblivious and a total softy att heart.
Check that, Renji is more like Sanosuke from Kenshin.
Feels more like a Piccolo to me. Not a Saiyan, but every now and then he gets some powerup that makes him strong enough to compete.
Byakuya is way too stoic and emotionally non committal to fall anywhere close to vegetas archetype. Byakuya is level headed and rational, something vegeta only displayed in small increments, and only really came to head at the very end of the manga. Byakuya is prideful, but he doesn't flaunt it...nor does that pride serve as his ultimate raison d'etre, as it does for vegeta. I would actually partially equate byakuya with piccolo. Often times silent, brooding and sardonic, powerful but also difficult to interpret with regards to his thoughts. They both exude an air of eminence about themselves, almost as if they were destined to be respected even while being feared. Both regal in appearance, I could easily see these two(if their dimensions could merge) hanging back, segregating themselves from the gaggle of cross character interaction sitting in reticent contemplation for who knows how long, not saying a word, yet somehow managing to exchange a lifetime of experiences through silent reverie.
Sheesh make a few posts on a message board trying to ease your way back into a discussion and whammo! It's like you have to defend your opinions or something...
:-D Missed you guys.
My main Bleach focus/interest was always power levels and how all that mess works...which is why, regardless of Ichigo "messing around with her senses" I don't see how a Shinigami as skilled as Rukia was at the time would lose to that hollow. Kubo basically made her a VC...and if you're a VC you're a top 1% Shinigami. (and this also goes into my point on why I think anyone capable of shikai is capable of being a VC, obtaining a shikai isn't easy).
I cannot picture any other VC level Shinigami getting wrecked by that Hollow...Ichigo's massive spirtiual pressure screwing with their senses or not. The moment they do sense the hollow, they engage the hollow. The moment it seems like the hollow is too strong for your sealed zanpaktou...you shikai.
And the kicker in all of this is her giving Ichigo her powers in the first place to deal with said Hollow. If she's at that level, and we know how surprisingly durable Rukia is based on her fight against Tube guy...there should've been one last ditch effort on her part to defeat said Hollow before she does what everyone in SS, even a gifted newbie like she was would've done...give her power away to a human with strong spiritual pressure.
I was fine with how that all went down up until Rukia had a shikai. When you have a shikai, you're at a completely different level then what she showed at the start of the manga. If you see that same thing happening to Renji, Matsumoto, Hinamori, Ikkaku, etc. etc. etc. etc...Then fine. But Rukia was at the time (and now is) the defacto VC of the 13th division. top 1% Shinigami...and getting taken out like that when no other VC would've lost regardless of Ichigo's spiritual pressure is just ridiculous to me without just assuming Kubo retconn'd it because he suddenly wanted Rukia to be a powerful character that could hold her own in the next arc, and not just a damsel in distress.
@DM For RG dude...I'm not really leaving it or saying it's fine, I'm just trying to make sense of it, find a comparison. Besides, I just think it'll come together when we see more chapters (as in, my standby argument when Kubo does something completely ridiculous...)
We know knowing the names of your zanpaktou and all it's abilities makes it more powerful. We know that the names of said abilities basically tell you what type of zanpaktou it is and what those abilities will be like (it's always pretty literal, though I don't know any Japanese...) And we know, or I guess it's not hard to assume that there could be someone powerful enough to look at a zanpaktou and see what it's name is, and from that know it's abilities, since names have power.
And I think it's fine to assume that, given the nature of Soul Societies system...it's reincarnation. Life is cyclical, you die in Soul Society, you go to the Human world. You die in the Human world, you become a plus and you're either cleansed or become a Hollow. If you're cleansed you're a no name in Soul Society, unless of course you have a ton of reiatsu...in which case you become a Shinigami, which means you get a zanpaktou...which means your zanpaktou would have a name...etc. etc.
Again...not saying it makes perfect sense cause it's written out in such an odd way, and it DOES make more sense for the guy who created zanpaktou's to have this ability...But my feeling is that this dude is basically going to be the physical Avatar of the Spirit King, and that once we see Rukia's eventual ban kai, we'll get a better feeling for how it all works out.
...And my personal opinion on the DB/Bleach character comparisons...
Chad = Krillin
Renji = Tien (probably the better "fighter" but not comparable in any way once he was surpassed)
Byakuya = Piccolo as Cane said
And probably the one that most will disagree with
Ishida = Vegeta...just intelligent. I.E. not letting his pride get in the way of important matters. Seeing as how Vegeta could've ended the Cell and Buu sagas before they happened if not for his pride...Ishida's not going to make those same mistakes, he just won't be powerful enough to do it.
Like always though, Bleach character comparisons work better for the series it's the spiritual successor to...Yu Yu Hakuso...